I got called crazy by a kid in Sunday School yesterday
because I'm a vegetarian. I was subbing with the 3rd and 4th grade class and the discussion was about differences between people in your school. One of the questions was "Are there any vegetarians at your school?" They did not know what a vegetarian is. I explained that we don't eat anything with a face or a mother. This kid went through the whole list of animals and when I said no to eating each and everyone of them, he asked what I did eat and then called me crazy. I'm going to take them some Christian Vegetarian Association brochures (with a note on the back that I'm not trying to convert them, it's just for informational purposes.) I'd also like to bring a tofu-based snack that they can try but it'll be 9:30 in the morning and they're 8-10 year olds. I'm thinking of making "The Pigs are Safe in the Barn" recipe or the "Tofu fingers" . Any other ideas?
I may stir up a big sh*t storm with these kids' parents because the judgmental kid, in particular, has family who are ranchers. (I know his mother's twin sister's husband is a rancher but I'm not sure about his parents, but they probably are too.)
Yes, take care of yourself! A run-down veg*n won't have a chance of convincing an omni that a person could live without meat. That's a good idea, prepping your food now. Besides, you'll be able to teach those kids all about tofu after you recover. On a side note, why do omnis think that tofu is a vegetarian-only food? I mean, ever hear the phrase "meat and potatoes"? But that doesn't stop us from chowing down on spuds, ya know? :D
I'm having surgery to remove half my thyroid next Tuesday and I need to focus on taking care of myself over the weekend.
Speedy recovery wishes. My mom had her thyroid removed and my thyroid medicine doesn't absorb properly, so that hits close to home. If I lived closer, I'd bring you a recovery food package.
On a side note, why do omnis think that tofu is a vegetarian-only food? I mean, ever hear the phrase "meat and potatoes"? But that doesn't stop us from chowing down on spuds, ya know? :D
I have a lot of citified omni friends who eat tofu :), but it's pretty unheard of in cattle country. According to the ranchers where my grandparents live, there are two groups of people: 1. the meat and potatoes, god fearing, patriotic folk, and 2. the tofu-eating, tree-hugging riff-raff.
I would seriously drop the issue ... on several levels.
1. You're dealing with an age group where fitting in is beginning to be the most important thing in the world. LOTS of things are stupid or crazy to them. That's just how it is. You may, as an adult, be able to look back and say wow, if only I had been more accepting or open minded or independant or WHATEVER at that stage, wouldn't that have been great? Yeah, it would have been, but human nature is hard to change, and the herd mentality prevails in this age group.
2. You would be challanging a lot of parent's parenting styles and I can tell you that NOTHING fires up a parent more than having their parenting challenged. It is hard enough to be a mom and raise your kid and feed them dinner every night and so on and so forth. If my kid came home suddenly full of the notion that what I am feeding them is wrong and refused to eat it... if they thought ANYTHING I was doing was wrong, for that matter... well, it would be one thing in a teenager. It would be expected. But I would be LIVID if my 3rd or 4th grader was doing it. It sounds like you are subbing as a teacher for these kids so you would be stepping in not even as a primary caregiver here and giving this advice - that's a double black strike there.
I say you have to accept that kids are kids and you said your part and I don't think you should push the issue. I respect your right to feel what you feel and all but I would seriously not try butting in to these kids' family lives this way. Just my opinion.
You can try the veggie snack route if you want but will that really prove much? I'd think that most kids who have never been exposed to tofu might find it disgusting. I know I thought it was foul the first time I encountered it. (My 3 year old, who has been eating it since he could have solids, likes it just fine... but if I waited till he was 8 or 9 to spring it on him? I don't know how that would go...) If you serve them up something they DON'T like, you're just going to reinforce the notion that you are nuts, know what I mean?
I think you'd be better off serving them something they NORMALLY eat and saying, see, a vegetarian would eat this. Meatless chili, cheese pizza... of course this gets harder and harder if you want to drive home the vegan point of view but ovo-lacto lifestyle is probably foreign enough to this population ... surely not every single dish these kids eats involves meat. I don't think you need to drag tofu in here - show them how you are ALIKE, not how you are different.
The more I think about it, the more I probably won't go to the trouble to enlighten the kids.
At least you can vent to us. :)
You know, those pesky verses about how one shouldn't judge others? How is it that so many "Christians" forget this simple commandment? Wait, that wasn't judgmental of me, was it? :-\
maybe you should rephrase that to "how is it that so many 'people' forget this?"
i don't know of any Christians who claim to be perfect, why do you expect perfection from them? or do you expect it from everyone else, too? everyone has issues with something, whether it be a Christian, Buddhist, atheist, veg*n, omni, cannibal, whatever.
to me, i see it in this way. Christianity (and most religions and belief systems) are a way to aspire to something better, to set a higher standard for yourself. you expect omnis to aspire to something better (veg*nism) that you are doing for your reasons. why is it any different for a Christian to expect a non-Christian to aspire to something that they think is better for their own reasons? it is natural.
all of these comments about that it is disturbing for a child to already judge others who are different. what about the things many of you are saying? "christians are bad because of _____" "omnis are bad because of _____" what you are really saying is "those people are bad because they are not like me". they are bad according to your own standard for yourself. the children are doing the same thing, and guess what? they learned it from their parents who apparently think JUST LIKE YOU DO!
i read a lot of double standards on the boards with regard to religion and eating lifestyle. to me, it is somewhat offensive, even though it is not directed at me personally.
fiona
I took a preacher "friend" out to lunch a couple of weeks ago. I have a deal with the local restaurant...when my favorite cook is in, she is allowed to brick the grill (clean the meat crap off) and make me a patty melt with my own vegan cheese and a Boca. I don't do this often, the cook is my best friend here and it is nice if I get to take out a friend to be able to sit down and eat something well GOOD.
Anyway, I went back to the kitchen and handed my goodies in which came back with grilled onions on swirly bread!!! (I think I am hungry) My friend asked me what I had handed back and she asked me why I couldn't eat meat. I said "it is a religious thing with me." This is true, but I don't necessarily mean at Catholic thing, as I am Catholic. I went on to say that Genesis tells us that we are given every herb and seed bearing plant for our food, that murdering our fellow earthlings is just immoral and as far as *I* am concerned goes against God. The look on her face was indescribable.
One, I am NOT a Christian Bible thumper, but she is. Two, I don't preach or stick my ideas forcefully into the rectums of others. Three, this woman is a minister and the most irreligious, angry and ungodly person...and I am a witch with a capital B sometimes so I let it flip out of my mouth. Gosh it felt good!
Sorry, but Dragonfly has a nasty streak...
I don't know a single kid that doesn't love a fuzzy little animal.
I know that the approach is to show kids that it's fun and healthy to be vegetarian, but perhaps you would receive a faster and more favorable reaction by playing up the animals that you don't eat. Maybe show a video of really, cute baby animals (I can hear the "awwwws!" already!), and then afterward say that that is part of the reason you don't eat meat. At their age, I can't imagine them not relating to that, and maybe, just maybe, one or two of them will think, hey, I don't want to eat animals either. Educating them about the health benefits can come later, after you've got their attention.
When I was in elementary school I couldn't have cared less about my health--it was the last thing on my mind. But I loved animals. Growing up, I didn't have the luxury of knowing and learning from a vegetarian (I lived in the country, full of dairy farmers/ranchers). Just a thought.
I took a preacher "friend" out to lunch a couple of weeks ago.
...The look on her face was indescribable.
One, I am NOT a Christian Bible thumper, but she is. Two, I don't preach or stick my ideas forcefully into the rectums of others. Three, this woman is a minister and the most irreligious, angry and ungodly person...and I am a witch with a capital B sometimes so I let it flip out of my mouth. Gosh it felt good!
Sorry, but Dragonfly has a nasty streak...
dragonfly, i don't know you, but from your posts, you seem to be a gentle person who is comfortable in what she thinks is right for herself. so, i imagine that you presented your answer as to why you couldn't eat meat in that way. so, did she not have a response? just the facial expresssion?
i am trying to figure out how an "indescribable" facial expression makes someone "irreligious, angry and ungodly". and if it wasn't just the facial expression that made her that way, i wonder why she was your "friend" and why you would want to spend time with her? ???
i understand what you say about not wanting to kill our fellow earthlings (though that word made me laugh) and that it is a Biblical idea. does that mean that you are upset if you step on an ant? probably not? or instead of slapping them to kill them, do you let mosquitoes bite you because they gotta eat, too? what if there was someone who took it to that extreme (meaning it was extreme in your eyes)? and their reason was Biblical? you might have an "indescribable" look on your face, but maybe it was just because you never thought about it that way, or you didn't think that anyone should take it that literally.
maybe her indescribable facial expression was a mixture of surprise, doubt, guilt, etc. and maybe you got her to thinkin'. or maybe she was just thinking that you were a weird-o! ;) ;)
fiona
I said "Christians" because we are speaking about a particular group of people: the fellow worshippers at TinTexas' SUNDAY SCHOOL. While it is true that ideally no person would ever judge another, I know for a fact that the Christian bible states specifically to avoid judging others. I do not expect perfection from anyone; but I get very tired of people thinking that their way is the only way, and that everyone else is wrong. I take that attitude with no one, I apologize if my posts have suggested that. And I don't remember myself, or TinTexas (original poster) saying that "so-and-so is bad", but rather we were expressing a dislike of the way that these kids view others and the world. It is sad to think of the future if all, or most kids, are raised with that outlook.
And I don't remember myself, or TinTexas (original poster) saying that "so-and-so is bad", but rather we were expressing a dislike of the way that these kids view others and the world. It is sad to think of the future if all, or most kids, are raised with that outlook.
my response was not to TinTexas, but to the person who i quoted. the "so-and-so is bad" wasn't meant to seem as a direct quote, i know my use of the quotation marks gave the wrong impression. sorry for the confusion on that. what i was trying to get across was that there are so many off-handed, snide, and jabbing remarks about omnis or republicans or christians or whatever. the general summary of those responses is that they are "bad" or "wrong" because of that, because they are different from what the people who were posting thought was right.
i am aware that the nature of most of the responses to TinTexas' original post was dislike of the attitude of the kids, but for some of the posters that turned into dislike of christians. that is when i jumped in. i had just heard these little comments here and there on the boards and i finally decided to say something.
fiona
I never really got the impression of a general dislike of Christians. Instead I understood the remarks to be of a "dislike of Christians who believe that they are the be-all and end-all simply because they say that they are Christian" nature. I find it great that you have never encountered anyone like that, but I know many people who fit that description.
I never really got the impression of a general dislike of Christians. Instead I understood the remarks to be of a "dislike of Christians who believe that they are the be-all and end-all simply because they say that they are Christian" nature. I find it great that you have never encountered anyone like that, but I know many people who fit that description.
So do I. One of my first jobs out of college was in a library. The head librarian was a liar, a thief, and in her own mind, a devout Christian. >:( It still makes me sick to remember her. I know some may say I'm judging her but those things were proved about her and she was fired from the job a couple of years after I left. There's a verse that says basically that it's by your deeds that the unbelievers will know you. I think it's in one of Paul's letters. She was an example of Christianity that tainted my view of Christians for years, unfortunately.
You almost sound like you feel the need to defend your life style. I don't thing that even if you bring them veggie food it will make any difference what so ever. the kids in question have no real power in the family at the age of 8-10 for the most part have to eat what is put in front of them. by no means am i saying don't try just don't get your hopes up.
Also the founding father of America were not Christian they were Deists
You almost sound like you feel the need to defend your life style. I don't thing that even if you bring them veggie food it will make any difference what so ever. the kids in question have no real power in the family at the age of 8-10 for the most part have to eat what is put in front of them. by no means am i saying don't try just don't get your hopes up.
Also the founding father of America were not Christian they were Deists
Well, I beg to differ with you there. George Washington *was* a Christian:
President George Washington, September 17th, 1796 "It is impossible to rightly govern the world without God and the Bible"
His Prayer At Valley Forge "Almighty and eternal Lord God, the great Creator of heaven and earth, and the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ; look down from heaven in pity and compassion upon me Thy servant, who humbly prostrates myself before Thee."
"Bless O Lord the whole race of mankind, and let the world be filled with the knowledge of Thee and Thy Son, Jesus. "Of all dispositions and habits which lead to political prosperity, religion and morality are indispensable supports. In vain would that man claim the tribute of patriotism, who should labor to subvert these great pillars of human happiness, these firmest props of the duties of men and citizens."
"To the distinguished character of a Patriot, it should be our highest glory to add the more distinguished character of a Christian."
The draft of the circular letter is in the hand of a secretary, although the signature is Washington's. Some have called this concluding paragraph "Washington's Prayer." In it, he asked God to: "dispose us all, to do Justice, to love mercy, and to demean ourselves with that Charity, humility and pacific temper of mind, which were the Characteristicks of the Divine Author of our blessed Religion, and without an humble imitation of whose example in these things, we can never hope to be a happy Nation."
George Washington as he resigned his commission as general of the Continental Army on December 23, 1783. "I consider it an indispensable duty to close this last solemn act of my official life by commending the interests of our dearest country to the protection of Almighty God and those who have the superintendence of them into His holy keeping."
A quick google was the source: http://www.geocities.com/cott1388/valley-forge.html
I am not trying to fight but here some info on
George Washington, the first president of the United States, never declared himself a Christian according to contemporary reports or in any of his voluminous correspondence. Washington Championed the cause of freedom from religious intolerance and compulsion. When John Murray (a universalist who denied the existence of hell) was invited to become an army chaplain, the other chaplains petitioned Washington for his dismissal. Instead, Washington gave him the appointment. On his deathbed, Washington uttered no words of a religious nature and did not call for a clergyman to be in attendance.
From:
George Washington and Religion by Paul F. Boller Jr., pp. 16, 87, 88, 108, 113, 121, 127 (1963, Southern Methodist University Press, Dallas, TX)
While this is true, Washington's acceptance and tolerance of other beliefs is shown by his embracing Freemasonry. Unlike secular humanists, tolerance extended to all with Washington, not just tolerance of everything except Christianity. It should also be noted his wife and daughters were among the most pious of Christians.
Cheers
Well I for one would seriously question the source of the alleged Washington quote. For starters I am alarmed that he would in fact have implied that anyone, with or without the bible, would be capable or deserving of ruling the world. I mean, we're talking THE WORLD here...
FWIW
http://candst.tripod.com/tnppage/misqidx.htm
Claims that quote (among others) has never been correctly identified.
Of course you can't trust everything you read on the internet...
http://en.wikiquote.org/wiki/George_Washington places this quote in the same category as the infamous "I cannot tell a lie" quote... calling it a spurious quotation.
"Washington is known to have made some official statements of public piety, but this is not one of them. Though this assertion is very widely reported to have been said in Washington's Farewell Address (17 September 1796), this is not actually the case, as any search of the documents would reveal. It has also been presented as having been part of his Proclamation on January 1, 1795 of February 19th, 1795 as a day of national Thanksgiving in this form....."
(It's a long passage with lots of italics and bolds I don't feel like working on right now... ;) It's in the misattributed section)
I take it as a complement when ever someone calls me weird or crazy. i have usually done or said some thing out of there comfort zone that has made them think. Look at it this way if some one calls you crazy for not eating animals you have made them question them selfs and the way they live. I like to thing that i am helping people grow
Cheers
This is in response to "being-fiona." I don't really call her my friend and it is rather complicated. Her LOOK was not irreligious, just defensive if you ask me. I have known this woman for a long time and I know her to be very angry, a liar, a thief, unkind and insincere, amongst other things. So yes, to me she is "ungodly" and as she has set herself forward as a minister and she considers herself so above we mere mortals and certainly Catholics...then she should seek to be as "godly" as possible, in my humble opinion.
To TinTexas...this is one of the reasons I hesitate to call myself a "Christian." Those I have known in the past would cheat me as look at me. They talked viciously behind my back and seemed to go out of their way to cause me grief any way they could find to do so. I'll call myself a Catholic because I converted and I worked for the title. I still work for the title, always will.
Thank you Fiona for thinking me gentle. I try to be kind and gentle and thoughtful, I really do. This person just brings out something I don't like in myself. If I didn't have a hidden agenda, and if I were not looking out for the health and well being of someone incapable of doing so herself, I would not talk to this woman. As it is, I am the only person in town who will still talk to her, so I go forward with my purpose in this and try to be nice.
and for the record, I don't forcefully insert my ideas into the backsides of others, however tempted I am. Having said that, my backside is impervious to such attempts from others. If they poke at me too many times, I lose my temper. I have one, I am a redhead!
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