Frustrations with non-veg*ns...
Hi all! I think there is a bit of a rant coming (though I am calm & in a good mood--I'm just venting a little!), so I first wanted to say that I consider myself an extremely open-minded person. Of course, when it comes to politics, religion, ethics, morals, etc. (all that personal opinion stuff), I have my views & beliefs, but I also love listening to what others have to say. I don't often think I am "right"; I just see things a certain way & believe them to be true, but I understand & appreciate that there are others with diverse opinions out there that differ from mine! Long story short, I think I'm pretty understanding, open-minded & appreciative of everyone's differences. I have learned a lot from opinions that I don't share.
That being said... Lately, I have been feeling more & more frustrated by the actions & lifestyles of non-vegans. (Of course, there are individuals who I am sometimes irritated by, but not really by too many "groups" of people on a day-to-day basis.) I try not to be judgmental, and I remind myself that not everyone feels that the veg*n lifestyle is for them. And they have the right to believe that. Logically, I know this. But emotionally...? That's a different story.
I have never really enjoyed the sight of meat, or thinking about the fact that an animal died for that person to eat their sandwich or whatever... But recently, I feel downright angry & disgusted when I see people eating meat (sometimes even cheese or dairy, but at least that's not flesh). Just the nonchalantness that people go about eating meat really disturbs me--like the animals were always there only for their own disposal & it's no big deal to eat it. I would almost understand (but probably not partake) in something like a once-yearly ritual of eating turkey on a holiday like Thanksgiving, and really, truly appreciating the life that that animal sacrificed for this meal... But eating meat at 3 meals a day? It's impossible for people who eat like this to really reflect on the impact they have & how their food choices matter to not only animals, but to other people, the environment, the future, etc. (not to sound like a bleeding heart or anything...). ;)
(I hope this is making sense. It's just that now that I'm an "outsider" to the meat-eating world, I keep noticing more than ever how often people eat meat & don't even think twice about it!!)
It is just really frustrating because I am almost to the point where I don't even want to eat around anyone who isn't veg*n. I know this would never happen (and I wouldn't truly want it to) because I love the whole socializing aspect of having a great meal with friends & family, and as long as I can get a vegan dish at the restaurant we go to, I'm set. But it is just hard (not in a "woe is me" sort of way; just upsetting) to be around so much meat and, therefore, cruel eating habits...
I remember when I read Becoming Vegan, there was a mention of the possibility of this happening, and I kind of dismissed it because I'm usually so open about everyone's differences... But now that I know so much about the meat, dairy, etc. industries, it's hard to just turn a blind eye. Last night I had a great night out with friends, spent the night at a dear old friend's apartment & at lunchtime today, we all ordered Chinese delivery. I ordered a tofu dish, as did my omni friend Emily who just happens to like tofu, and my good friend said, "Oh, are you on this vegan kick, too?" Like it's a "low-carb" kick or something... I didn't get upset & it wasn't a big deal... I was just kind of like ???. And then some other kid (who I really like!) said, "Ugh. Tofu is just disgusting." I explained that, like all things, there is good tofu & bad tofu. I have definitely had tofu dishes that tasted like crap, but I've also had chicken that tasted like crap... That doesn't mean that all chicken is disgusting. (To meat-eaters, at least.) Plus, I would never say to someone after they ordered a steak, "Ugh. Steak is disgusting." (Even though I sometimes want to...)
Or when my mom, who loves the vegan dishes I make, says, "I could eat like this everyday if I had the time. I feel so good when I eat this way, but it's just so easy to cook meat." I always gently remind her that it's just as easy to cook amazing, healthful, quick vegan dishes--you just need to plan ahead sometimes & keep some staple food products on hand. (Plus, having a recipe arsenal like VegWeb doesn't hurt.) :)
I think I'm done for now... I think a lot about this (could you tell?? ::)), so I'm sure I'll be back. But I think I blabbered enough for now. Sorry to have gone on for so long! It's just a meat-filled world, I suppose, so the occassional venting is just necessary. :) Thanks for reading!
Has anyone else gone through feelings like this after going vegan?? Let's share some angry, frustrated veg*n camaraderie! ;)
Yeah, I definitly get angry with the nonveggies. And I am an angry vegan. I don't throw paint on anyone like that sort, but I have no reservations of stating the facts of veganism/omnivorism to nonveggies. I mean angry vegan in the sense that if an omni insults my tofu I will rip into them with all the vegan facts I know, believe me! I am not quiet about my veganism.
I was eating dinner with my family once, when I changed for "passive vegan" to "angry vegan". I made some food, and they treated it as a side dish and ate meat with it. All my frustrations for omnis just exploded at that moment! Thoughts raced around my head. There usual ones, ya know: "they're ruining the world, they're disgusting, why don't they care about the animals/their bodies/the earth, do they even respect me?, why did i bother cooking for them, screw them, I hate them, I hate all omnis, why isnt the world veg*ns?" I excused myself from the table to try to stifle my imminent explosion of feelings. My mom had to ask "Where are you going?" So I promptly bellowed "I can't just sit here while you eat my friends! You going to eat me next?"
I've been thinking for a while that we should start a campaign to promote veganism. Not a peta thing, or an animal rights thing, a "be vegan to save the world" thing. Maybe contact all those famous veg. celebs and get them to do public service announcements lol.
this has all been really interesting to read. i actually have never really had much of a problem. once i was out to lunch with some people and the husband of a friend seemed to be kind of quizzing me on things, which was annoying, but other than that nothing too bad... mostly good really. a friend of ours is "farmer stock" as someone said, grew up on a farm, still lives on a farm (but doesn't farm himself) and is a big meat and cheese guy. we went to their place for a BBQ one night and i was a little nervous about things, but he called me into the kitchen in the middle of things and was standing there holding a box of tofu like it was a ticking time bomb, wondering what exactly to do with it. i almost laughed but didn't because it was just so sweet. he ended up just slicing it and grilling it plain (mmm) which i was fine with because there were plenty of veggie sides and i wasn't about to ask him to marinate it for four hours. i was honestly really touched. my parents are also cool with things because my mother was a vegetarian for years before she had kids and doctors told her she couldn't possibly have a healthy pregnancy if she didn't eat meat. she eats vegetarian most of the time now. and my husband is usually pretty cool about things, likes the stuff i cook, doesn't give me shit (occasionally teases me about being a hippie) but he still brings home steaks and chicken to cook for himself. i'm actually okay with that because i realize it's a personal choice that one has to come to on one's own. he did take a little while to understand why i personally would not cook the stuff for him, but he gets it now.
the one thing i have problems with -- and actually, i need input on this -- is what to do when someone starts peppering you with questions while at dinner or whatever. scenario: the plates are being delivered to the table and someone asks you "so, you're a vegetarian? how come?" i just think it's rude to start talking about all my reasons for it, because i really don't want to gross anyone out, but at the same time i don't want to just say nothing because then i'll just look stupid, like i never thought things through. any ideas?
the one thing i have problems with -- and actually, i need input on this -- is what to do when someone starts peppering you with questions while at dinner or whatever. scenario: the plates are being delivered to the table and someone asks you "so, you're a vegetarian? how come?" i just think it's rude to start talking about all my reasons for it, because i really don't want to gross anyone out, but at the same time i don't want to just say nothing because then i'll just look stupid, like i never thought things through. any ideas?
I am glad that you've had such good luck with the veg thing, vegetativestate! I have also experienced a lot of positive reactions, which is very encouraging, but (as you can tell) have also been frustrated with the comments made by others.
As for explaining why you're a vegetarian, I don't really feel that it's appropriate dinner conversation. ;D I may not like that people eat meat, but I want to be respectful enough to not ruin their meal! When this comes up (if it's over dinner), I usually say something like, "There are a few reasons... Most of which are probably better talked about after dinner!" I have also found that saying this with a bit of a laugh & a smile goes a long way. I never want to come across as aggressive or angry; I want them to be willing to listen & not feel attacked if they ask me the question.
So, in the actual "explanation" part, I sum it up by saying, "Mostly health, environment, and personal ethics. There are quite a few things that led me on the path to veganism , but these three things are the most important to me." Usually the person understands right away what I mean by "personal ethics"--I don't want to be responsible for animals being killed for my food. And by saying "personal ethics," I have found that they are less likely to feel attacked & become defensive. I'm not criticizing them (out loud ;)); I'm just explaining my own choices.
I often get some questions (or puzzled looks) when I say "health" or "environment," though. People really don't realize how detrimental farming (especially factory farming) is to the earth! So, I usually talk about this type of stuff:
http://www.terradaily.com/reports/Farm_Animals_More_Damaging_To_Climate_Than_Cars_999.html
Also, just a little sidenote that I find really interesting... In the past when I have focused mainly on the animal rights aspects of my veganism (which is really only part of it, but an important part nonetheless), people tend to be much more closed-minded. I can tell they dismiss what I'm saying right away & decide that I am just a bleeding heart hippie. ::) (And I am 100% positive that I am not being "in-your-face" or angry about it. I always put forth a huge effort to be polite & keep it short because usually when people ask, I can tell it's just for chit-chat... They usually don't want to go into a huge discussion about it, so I get the most important things out first... And if they ask to know more, I am definitely happy to elaborate, but I don't ever plan on that happening.) Anyway... But when I talk about the health or environmental aspects, people really seem to enjoy the conversation a lot more. I always slip in the animal rights part because I think it's important to mention, but in order to make it an actual conversation (not me talking on deaf ears), I start & end with the other reasons. I don't know what it is, but a lot of people tend to think it's more than a little ridiculous to care about whether or not a chicken dies. I have even been told that it's the chicken's "destiny" to end up on someone's plate, and they would never have even been born without the meat industry... :o Don't even get me started on that one!
I hope I helped a little! As usual, I got a little long-winded. :)
First thing first, I am vegan by choice, not by want. I love to eat animals. Sorry if you don't like me now. However, I find veganism as a little more highly evolved state of being is all. Being less evolved than most of you guys, since I do eat meat twice a month as a reward for not eating meat the rest of the month, I can see both sides of this point but alas, do not see past the point of having a problem with non-vegans/non-veggies. Being vegetarian/vegan is a choice we all have made; it isn't like being gay or male or female.
If you decided to start shooting heroin would you hold it against those who don't because they chose not too? This is a choice we have made.
Does it still suck that cows are raised on dirt (not grassy dales as the industry would like us to believe) face to a$$ with other cows or that chickens are raised 20 to a cage with their beaks clipped off? Yes, of course it does. Does it bug me to the point that I won't base my diet on it? Yes. Does it bug me to the point where I would rather starve than eat it? No.
I can only imagine that this is the case that most omnis deal with. My family, for instance, doesn't care one iota. They feel that "God (or Mohamed, or Isis, or Mithra, or Zeus, or......) put them here for us to eat" based on the way the were raised for generations. My in-laws are farmers and think my wife and I are crazy and think it is sly of them to feed our kids animal products behind our back. They think because the kids love it it must be good.
I guess it all comes down to this being a choice we have made. Either isolate yourself from the social interactions you say you love or be a little more tolerant toward people who haven't chose the same choice as you have, even if you haven't acted against them, just realize you are a little further down the evolutionary trail than they are.
Hell, I don't know. Its just my opinion :P
Reading these posts made me think back to when I was a teenager and veg. It was a lot harder. People often gave me a hard time and there weren't all the veg products in the 80's that there are now. I think being veg is more accepted these days.
I think what complicates matters is living under someone else's roof. My Mom didn't support my choices. She had the Bishop of the Mormon church we went to lecture me about everything (food, dress, friends, substances, etc)
Now that I'm in control of my life I don't find it a problem at all. Maybe you'll be able to be in this situation at some point. This may not be an immediate fix, but at least it will give you something to look forward to.
I guess it all comes down to this being a choice we have made. Either isolate yourself from the social interactions you say you love or be a little more tolerant toward people who haven't chose the same choice as you have, even if you haven't acted against them, just realize you are a little further down the evolutionary trail than they are.
Hell, I don't know. Its just my opinion :P
I agree with you, and i dont' think any (or at least many) of us were saying we hate every single person we know who isn't a veg*an. I do believe it is a choice I have made, however, I do wish that the people closest to me could understand more of where I come from and would respect my choice as I feel I do there. I feel I tolerate everyone else's choices just as I want them to tolerate mine. But it is normal to want to be with people who share the same beliefs as you, is it not?
I don't get this idea that veganism is a phase, something you'll grow out of, a simple diet and when you are done trying to do whatever it is you are trying to accomplish, you'll go back to eating meat. LIke it is all about what you put in your mouth, and not about your heart, or your mind. Veganism is a principle, a way of life, a belief system, even a spiritual thing (as in connected to the earth and every other living creature).
Meaters DO seem to have a very casual attitude toward the fact that their diet is responsible for murder. I often hear about how healthy meat is and that God intended us to eat meat, or that it is just so good tasting HOW on earth can I refuse it? First, if you are of the persuasion, read Genesis where it says that we are to eat of every herb and seed-bearing plant and to be S-T-E-W-A-R-D of the animals which means caretakers, not eaters. HEALTHY? Uh explain to me why I would want to eat something dead that contains anbiotics, hormones and other chemicals? It would be like licking the toilet after halfass cleaning it with baking soda and vinegar. The same reason these people would not lick the toilet bowl is the same reason I would not eat meat! GROSSNESS HERE.
There truly is a sensitivity that comes with this choice not to eat living, breathing creatures. Even if you don't start out vegan for the sake of animals, it happens. My primary goal was to feel better and this has helped my lupus a very great deal. I was not particularly concerned about animals...in the beginning. As time went on, it started to seep into me. I watched Earthlings and was so sickened, but I felt better informed, like someone had finally told me the absolute truth for once. Now, even if I wanted to go back, I could not, would not. I can't look at it without my brain flashing back to that documentary.
I often wonder, especially after being around all of you here, if vegans don't have higher intelligence than the general population. I say this because it is known that the higher one's intelligence is, the more they care about things outside of themselves, and the less intelligent, the more self-concerned. I see this group, generally speaking, as kind, gentle, caring, accepting and above-average in most ways. Okay, not all of us can type, but I don't see that this has anything to do with intelligence!
I watched Earthlings and was so sickened, but I felt better informed, like someone had finally told me the absolute truth for once. Now, even if I wanted to go back, I could not, would not. I can't look at it without my brain flashing back to that documentary.
Ok so I put off watching Earthlings for as long as possible...I mean, I thought it wouldn't bother me or that it might be propaganda. I was wrong...and I've never been more troubled in my life. I couldn't even get through the first part. I turned it off and stared at a wall for about an hour and asked if my roommates wanted to see it. They asked what it was about, and then basically said that it sounded too disgusting to them...and that's the mentality of most meat eaters. They don't know where it comes from and they don't want to know.
Quote: There truly is a sensitivity that comes with this choice not to eat living, breathing creatures. Even if you don't start out vegan for the sake of animals, it happens.
This is exactly what happened to me. I used to laugh at that joke, PETA=People That Eat Tasty Animals. The only reason I went vegetarian was because I was getting early warning signals of a progressive illness that ran in the family. It fixed that problem entirely but then something else happened, without my awareness it was happening. I was becoming a different person. Meat went from a craving I had to resist to something that repulsed me. I see connections of eatting meat and violence in general. A lack of respect for life in general. A lack of gratitude and love for this thing that is creation.
I always thought a little scene in the movie in West Side Story was touching. Rita Moreno is about to get attacked by the opposing gang members and the Jewish shopkeeper puts his hands out pleading "What are you doing".
What are' we doing?? It's awefull.
Still the end to this terrorism upon living things (including upon ourselves) won't end by force. People have to be enlightened and in my humble opinion there's no better way to help them than to just be a good role model.
Peace
If you decided to start shooting heroin would you hold it against those who don't because they chose not too? This is a choice we have made.
I try not to response directly to other people's posts.......but this is SO WRONG i have to. This statement is a logical phalacy. Please rethink what you're saying. I know you're intellegent and you'll find the error.......
Being bothered by omnis is something it sounds like a lot of people new to being vegan go through. I'm not worried about it, myself.
Analogy. My friend is left of Democrats; her son is a Republican. He got back from a tour in the Middle East and his car broke down. He asked his mom, my friend, for help. She didn't help him because she said that in good conscience, she couldn't bring herself to help a Republican. She got the Worst Mom of the Year award from me for that.
That story reminds me of this. There is no vegan-omni dividing line. Someone who is an omni is more awesome than I am at something else. There's a balance. The things I do better at (like being vegan) don't count for more.
Being bothered by omnis is something it sounds like a lot of people new to being vegan go through. I'm not worried about it, myself.
Analogy. My friend is left of Democrats; her son is a Republican. He got back from a tour in the Middle East and his car broke down. He asked his mom, my friend, for help. She didn't help him because she said that in good conscience, she couldn't bring herself to help a Republican. She got the Worst Mom of the Year award from me for that.
That story reminds me of this. There is no vegan-omni dividing line. Someone who is an omni is more awesome than I am at something else. There's a balance. The things I do better at (like being vegan) don't count for more. (quote)
Boy I can just imagine how it is in their household around voting time. ;) ;) ;D ;D
Analogy. My friend is left of Democrats; her son is a Republican. He got back from a tour in the Middle East and his car broke down. He asked his mom, my friend, for help. She didn't help him because she said that in good conscience, she couldn't bring herself to help a Republican. She got the Worst Mom of the Year award from me for that.
It's so hilariouus to me how we're all just a bunch of monkeys not long fallen from the trees lol. I mean that in a good way though.
ugh, my parents went vegetarian a few weeks ago, but they eat fish like there's no tomorrow and loads of cheese.
and they brag about being healthy now.
it's stupid. you have no idea how badly i would love to say that to their face.
i only know one other vegan. my mom's friend's daughter.
everyone else is a person I've met on vegweb, but you kids totally rock.
WOW CHICKPEA!!!! thats GREAT! Your parents are willing to examine their diets and CHANGE them...they have only been at it a few weeks. I used fish and dairy as a crutch for years as I shifted to a more and more cruelty free diet...
I want to urge you to praise the progress they re making. You don't have to support them eating ocean animals but please do let therm know you are proud of their EFFORTS...(and then gently supply them with literature like "diet for anew America" ;))
Aside from all that...
I too get bothered by people eating meat...especially when they re both eating meat and asking me how my chickens rescue is comming.
"so zeal, did you set up that thing at the park last weekend for the chicken thing?" (Takes a giant bite out of their general taos chicken)
"yeah...Liberty chicken came with me...that hen does so great with the kids."
"Cool...I'm so proud of you. Thats awesome." (takes another bite of the chicken.
"yeah, sometimes it sucks. I kinda feel like I'm not doing any good. Lots of people laugh when I tell them about the chicken rescue..."
"well..." (another bite of chicken) I support you! some people are just stupid!".....
::)
If you decided to start shooting heroin would you hold it against those who don't because they chose not too? This is a choice we have made.
I try not to response directly to other people's posts.......but this is SO WRONG i have to. This statement is a logical phalacy. Please rethink what you're saying. I know you're intellegent and you'll find the error.......
I'm not a philosophy major but I don't see the phalacy. It is a very oversimplified and stark analogy to a relatively benign reference. It is the same as saying that you decided to start wearing poop for perfume and you didn't like that other people didn't like the fragrance or want to wear it as well so you get upset with them. Well no, not even this is accurate because other people smelling the poop are affected by itand that is not the same as with your personal diet. It is up to them not to look at it but other than that it affects them little to none.
If you decided to start shooting heroin would you hold it against those who don't because they chose not too? This is a choice we have made.
I try not to response directly to other people's posts.......but this is SO WRONG i have to. This statement is a logical phalacy. Please rethink what you're saying. I know you're intellegent and you'll find the error.......
choosing to be vegan is nothing like choosing to shoot heroin (and after a point, that's not much of a choice, it's an addiction). drugs are dangerous, addictive, harmful for the body. veg*nism is... quite the opposite - it's healthy (when done properly), ethical, and it helps the environment. how can you compare something so negative with something so positive? they aren't related.
I agree with AshleyKimball - I don't want to single anyone out, but please, again, rethink your argument.
I too get bothered by people eating meat...especially when they re both eating meat and asking me how my chickens rescue is comming.
"so zeal, did you set up that thing at the park last weekend for the chicken thing?" (Takes a giant bite out of their general taos chicken)
"yeah...Liberty chicken came with me...that hen does so great with the kids."
"Cool...I'm so proud of you. Thats awesome." (takes another bite of the chicken.
"yeah, sometimes it sucks. I kinda feel like I'm not doing any good. Lots of people laugh when I tell them about the chicken rescue..."
"well..." (another bite of chicken) I support you! some people are just stupid!".....
::)
Hey VHZ! I didn't know you were starting a chicken rescue! That's great!!! *and I said that without taking a big bite of chicken!* I was just over at the Kentucky Fried Cruelty site and was thinking about doing some boycotting and protesting! Tell us more about your Chicken rescue!!! How is the doggie situation going? I hope your evil neighbor is backing off!
http://i165.photobucket.com/albums/u80/cbg01/chicken.gif
First thing first, I am vegan by choice, not by want. I love to eat animals. Sorry if you don't like me now. However, I find veganism as a little more highly evolved state of being is all. Being less evolved than most of you guys, since I do eat meat twice a month as a reward for not eating meat the rest of the month
You say you're a vegan.. but you eat meat twice a month as a "reward?" I'm not following this. Sorry, but somebody had to say it. It's just a fact that you're not a vegan, not meaning to exclude you at all, but it's like calling a cow a chicken.
The thing that frustrates me is when certain omnis eat meat because they are just being gluttons. Like if you go to a BBQ place they have to eat and eat and eat more and more and more meat because its there! Its like why??? Stop stuffing your face with all these dead animals, besides it being unhealthy its pretty gross. And then they see it as a competition, "Oooo I bet I can eat more ribs than you!" They are taking this to a new level. All these animals are being raised to die so that these people can laugh and binge on all this meat not because they're hungry but because its fun.
And what irks me more is when omnis continuously question your choice, personally I never attack anyone for what they choose to eat even if i dont agree with it, and whats more annoying is when they laugh at the fact that you choose not to eat animal products, I dont get whats so funny about it. And THEN they go on to ask what it is you eat, because, what? theres other things to eat besides...meat?!?!
First thing first, I am vegan by choice, not by want. I love to eat animals. Sorry if you don't like me now. However, I find veganism as a little more highly evolved state of being is all. Being less evolved than most of you guys, since I do eat meat twice a month as a reward for not eating meat the rest of the month
You say you're a vegan.. but you eat meat twice a month as a "reward?" I'm not following this. Sorry, but somebody had to say it. It's just a fact that you're not a vegan, not meaning to exclude you at all, but it's like calling a cow a chicken.
I have to agree--I think a better term would be to call yourself a "flextarian" I think that is more appropriate. I think it's great that you don't eat meat the other 28 days of the month--it's more of a commitment then a lot of people would make. Maybe we can all convice you to make it only twice a year :)
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