Frustrations with non-veg*ns...
Hi all! I think there is a bit of a rant coming (though I am calm & in a good mood--I'm just venting a little!), so I first wanted to say that I consider myself an extremely open-minded person. Of course, when it comes to politics, religion, ethics, morals, etc. (all that personal opinion stuff), I have my views & beliefs, but I also love listening to what others have to say. I don't often think I am "right"; I just see things a certain way & believe them to be true, but I understand & appreciate that there are others with diverse opinions out there that differ from mine! Long story short, I think I'm pretty understanding, open-minded & appreciative of everyone's differences. I have learned a lot from opinions that I don't share.
That being said... Lately, I have been feeling more & more frustrated by the actions & lifestyles of non-vegans. (Of course, there are individuals who I am sometimes irritated by, but not really by too many "groups" of people on a day-to-day basis.) I try not to be judgmental, and I remind myself that not everyone feels that the veg*n lifestyle is for them. And they have the right to believe that. Logically, I know this. But emotionally...? That's a different story.
I have never really enjoyed the sight of meat, or thinking about the fact that an animal died for that person to eat their sandwich or whatever... But recently, I feel downright angry & disgusted when I see people eating meat (sometimes even cheese or dairy, but at least that's not flesh). Just the nonchalantness that people go about eating meat really disturbs me--like the animals were always there only for their own disposal & it's no big deal to eat it. I would almost understand (but probably not partake) in something like a once-yearly ritual of eating turkey on a holiday like Thanksgiving, and really, truly appreciating the life that that animal sacrificed for this meal... But eating meat at 3 meals a day? It's impossible for people who eat like this to really reflect on the impact they have & how their food choices matter to not only animals, but to other people, the environment, the future, etc. (not to sound like a bleeding heart or anything...). ;)
(I hope this is making sense. It's just that now that I'm an "outsider" to the meat-eating world, I keep noticing more than ever how often people eat meat & don't even think twice about it!!)
It is just really frustrating because I am almost to the point where I don't even want to eat around anyone who isn't veg*n. I know this would never happen (and I wouldn't truly want it to) because I love the whole socializing aspect of having a great meal with friends & family, and as long as I can get a vegan dish at the restaurant we go to, I'm set. But it is just hard (not in a "woe is me" sort of way; just upsetting) to be around so much meat and, therefore, cruel eating habits...
I remember when I read Becoming Vegan, there was a mention of the possibility of this happening, and I kind of dismissed it because I'm usually so open about everyone's differences... But now that I know so much about the meat, dairy, etc. industries, it's hard to just turn a blind eye. Last night I had a great night out with friends, spent the night at a dear old friend's apartment & at lunchtime today, we all ordered Chinese delivery. I ordered a tofu dish, as did my omni friend Emily who just happens to like tofu, and my good friend said, "Oh, are you on this vegan kick, too?" Like it's a "low-carb" kick or something... I didn't get upset & it wasn't a big deal... I was just kind of like ???. And then some other kid (who I really like!) said, "Ugh. Tofu is just disgusting." I explained that, like all things, there is good tofu & bad tofu. I have definitely had tofu dishes that tasted like crap, but I've also had chicken that tasted like crap... That doesn't mean that all chicken is disgusting. (To meat-eaters, at least.) Plus, I would never say to someone after they ordered a steak, "Ugh. Steak is disgusting." (Even though I sometimes want to...)
Or when my mom, who loves the vegan dishes I make, says, "I could eat like this everyday if I had the time. I feel so good when I eat this way, but it's just so easy to cook meat." I always gently remind her that it's just as easy to cook amazing, healthful, quick vegan dishes--you just need to plan ahead sometimes & keep some staple food products on hand. (Plus, having a recipe arsenal like VegWeb doesn't hurt.) :)
I think I'm done for now... I think a lot about this (could you tell?? ::)), so I'm sure I'll be back. But I think I blabbered enough for now. Sorry to have gone on for so long! It's just a meat-filled world, I suppose, so the occassional venting is just necessary. :) Thanks for reading!
Has anyone else gone through feelings like this after going vegan?? Let's share some angry, frustrated veg*n camaraderie! ;)
First thing first, I am vegan by choice, not by want. I love to eat animals. Sorry if you don't like me now. However, I find veganism as a little more highly evolved state of being is all. Being less evolved than most of you guys, since I do eat meat twice a month as a reward for not eating meat the rest of the month
You say you're a vegan.. but you eat meat twice a month as a "reward?" I'm not following this. Sorry, but somebody had to say it. It's just a fact that you're not a vegan, not meaning to exclude you at all, but it's like calling a cow a chicken.
Oh I missed this... yeah I have to agree with Kylissa on this one....im a bit confused myself. Shouldn't your veganism be enough of a reward? I find it a bit ironic that you would choose to reward yourself with something that veganism is outwardly against. Maybe rewarding yourself with a cookie (for lack of better noun) than "rewarding" with meat...sorry I dont get it either :o
If you decided to start shooting heroin would you hold it against those who don't because they chose not too? This is a choice we have made.
I try not to response directly to other people's posts.......but this is SO WRONG i have to. This statement is a logical phalacy. Please rethink what you're saying. I know you're intellegent and you'll find the error.......
choosing to be vegan is nothing like choosing to shoot heroin (and after a point, that's not much of a choice, it's an addiction). drugs are dangerous, addictive, harmful for the body. veg*nism is... quite the opposite - it's healthy (when done properly), ethical, and it helps the environment. how can you compare something so negative with something so positive? they aren't related.
I agree with AshleyKimball - I don't want to single anyone out, but please, again, rethink your argument.
Me three! Its a totally different comparison.
First thing first, I am vegan by choice, not by want. I love to eat animals. Sorry if you don't like me now. However, I find veganism as a little more highly evolved state of being is all. Being less evolved than most of you guys, since I do eat meat twice a month as a reward for not eating meat the rest of the month
You say you're a vegan.. but you eat meat twice a month as a "reward?" I'm not following this. Sorry, but somebody had to say it. It's just a fact that you're not a vegan, not meaning to exclude you at all, but it's like calling a cow a chicken.
Oh I missed this... yeah I have to agree with Kylissa on this one....im a bit confused myself. Shouldn't your veganism be enough of a reward? I find it a bit ironic that you would choose to reward yourself with something that veganism is outwardly against. Maybe rewarding yourself with a cookie (for lack of better noun) than "rewarding" with meat...sorry I dont get it either :o
???
The way I see it is that no one else has to get it. I have read many posts on here where people have had weak moments and eaten something they shouldnt, no one said to them "Youre not vegan anymore." What has happened to the free acceptance of people that are vegan minded? Where has the unselfish encouragement for others gone? He follows a very strict vegan lifestyle (without cheating) accept for two days a month !?! And that prompts some to get up on soapboxes and start preaching? I am shocked really... be as proud as you would like, but not at the expense of others.
If you decided to start shooting heroin would you hold it against those who don't because they chose not too? This is a choice we have made.
I try not to response directly to other people's posts.......but this is SO WRONG i have to. This statement is a logical phalacy. Please rethink what you're saying. I know you're intellegent and you'll find the error.......
choosing to be vegan is nothing like choosing to shoot heroin (and after a point, that's not much of a choice, it's an addiction). drugs are dangerous, addictive, harmful for the body. veg*nism is... quite the opposite - it's healthy (when done properly), ethical, and it helps the environment. how can you compare something so negative with something so positive? they aren't related.
I agree with AshleyKimball - I don't want to single anyone out, but please, again, rethink your argument.
Me three! Its a totally different comparison.
"It is a very oversimplified and stark analogy to a relatively benign reference."
If you decided to _________ would you hold it against those who don't because they chose not too? This is a choice we have made.
What goes in the blank is of no importance... hence the oversimplified and stark analogy.
You might respect the vegan lifestyle and it's values, but it's not just making a mistake, it is plainly not living a vegan lifestyle. By someone who continues to eat meat, without making an effort to change to a cruelty free lifestyle, calling themselves a vegan, everything veganism stands for is out of the window. If you want so bad to be a vegan, be one!
And I agree that any effort towards a veg*n diet is commendable.
Well this is what i was HOPING everyone would conclude.... Choosing to eat animals in no way compares to chosing to do herione--or any other random acitivites--because it KILLS something. The animals have no choice in the matter. The heroine is an inanimate object and doesn't care one way or another if you consume it. A chicken on the other hand?
A better analogy would have been: "If you decided to start murdering defensless crippled children and burned down a rainforest, would you hold it against others who didnt?"
I dont mean to keep ganging up on you, but I feel your flippant, nonchalant analogy provides a perfect example of why us posting on this thread are so frustrated with omnis. And it sort of sets you up to being directly addressed. We're posting on this thread because we don't approve of how omnis never stop to think deeply about what they are doing. The fact they never look at ALL the angles of how they're hurting themselves/the environment/the animals/the world is clearly upsetting to me (and maybe the other posters on this thread). I see you have thought about some of the angles on why veganism is great, and hopefully in time you will think of the others and make a complete switch, but for now I don't think it is appropriate for you to display your omni-attitude in a thread frustrated with omnis.
I also agree with the acceptance. I'm not Vegan, I'm vegetarian, and although I come closer to the vegan lifestyle I'm not, so I wouldnt want to take that away from all of those true vegans who try very hard to actually live that lifestyle.
and You're right PIP I dont think a label should make anyone but I do think that this is how people become confused with the real issue. Veganism to my knowledge is suppose to be about animal rights and choosing not to participate in such cruelty and I do applaud any effort in moving in this direction as in what Nargalzius has done, but I think with the "rewarding of the meat" comes confusion. To those who are Vegan and to those that know nothing about it.
Okay, this has probably already been mentioned, but I don't feel like reading all of the posts. I HATE it when people say when they find out that I am vegan "I could never do that!" Drives me nuts, becuase I know that it is an outright blatent lie. They could if they wanted to, it is easy. Why don't they tell the truth and say "I like meat too much to don't want to be a vegetarian". I also get annoyed by all the people out there who claim to be "animal friendly" but then they grill huge steaks or eat a chicken breast sandwichs. I get so tired of the hypocrits.
There are three types of people, the best, activists, like us, are the people who see an injustice in the world and DO something about it. You are an animal lover and you show it by becoming vegan, that is way cool and I accept that.
Then there are the honest people. Poeple who don't care about the environment, say they don't, only care for cats and dogs and admit it, and continue to eat meat. Those people are the honest poeple, I respect that, don't share those views, but at least they are honest.
Unfortunately most fall into the third category, the worst type: the hypocrits. The people out there who say they care for animals yet eat steak, say they care for environment as they eat a chicken sandwich in their huge suburban SUV on their way to work.
But I like this website because it seems that most here are the first category, the activists. Those who see an injustice and do something about it. Now you people are the coolest, I am proud to be one of you.
Okay, I see, even though someone does "their" very best, it still may not be good enough. I can accept that.
With that said... I am not vegan, however, I do eat 100% vegan foods 100% of the time. Just to let everyone ( and I know its not everyone) know the difference. And Nargalzius, he's not vegan but he does eat 100% vegan foods 341 days a year. It has been for the better, I myself have enjoyed it very much. I guess we dont live a vegan lifestyle, but we do have a vegan diet... except for those pesky 24 days a year.
I just dont know what I'll say to people now. I cant honestly say we're vegan... lol, that just may be easier, might help get some of our family members off our backs. Not a big deal, its no ones business anyway. Actually you have helped me, saved me from a trap that I almost fell into. Like prettyin_punk said what do labels mean anyways?
Some of you will understand what I am saying exactly for what it is, some wont. I can accept that too.
It wasnt an "eating meat - shooting heroin" comparison... It was about "choice" !!! A simple "choice-choice" comparison that was obviously too deeply scrutinized by some of you. Truly, I give up.
Nargalzius - I'm curious about why you eat meat. Is it because you don't have a balanced diet and you're becoming protein deprived? It's easy to get enough protein when eating healthy, which makes me concerned for your overall health.
Well, alrighty then! You know the main reason most of the world won't commit to being more respectful to animals (not eating them, or at least dramatically less)? Because of imposing people such as you overzealous folks that haven't given me a shred of respect. I applaud you that maintain and tow the line flawlessly, really I do. I believe I even mentioned that I see it as a more evolved state of being. But where a few of you rise, you too fall due to your lack of respect and tolerance toward other humans. I EAT LESS ANIMAL PRODUCT THAN A VEGETARIAN! But I want you few to know that when I eat my next critter, I will first name it, and you guessed it, it will honor the ones who decide to be small and closed minded ;). Hope that helps you swallow your food better. Other than that you aren't going to change me by being nasty or judgemental. I am what I am, I don't care if you call me a vegan or not.
I'm sorry the poop for perfume missed the spot, it was supposed to be as ludicrous of an example as I could come up with without exerting too much thought. I still maintain that their is no logical fallacy. ASHLEYKIMBALL, even your example and alternate analogy doesn't prove the fallacy. Show me the fallacy and I will recant. Other than that, go choose to shoot some heroin! And by eating meat you aren't hurting crippled infants and burning down rainforests. If you want to preach, don't point your blather at me. I have a very keen grip on what is and what isn't and if you wanted, I could point out quite a bit of generally off the wall fallacious crap any of us have said in here.
HUMBOLDT_HONEY, my diet is better now, I feel anyways, although there are many that will argue that point (back up a few pages and begin reading), than it has ever been. My DW makes the most delicious, flavorful, nutritious, and wholesome VEGAN meals. I eat meat still because I like the taste, texture, flavor, smell, and many other characteristics that I don't feel like trying to describe just so I can be scorned. Maybe because I'm a dude, or because it has a comfort value for me. I don't know. I just like it. I just think it irresponsible to not consider each individual's impact on the industry. Meat is extremely inefficient, all the food the cows eat, we can eat and not have to eat the cow. I understand that, I'm just not a bleeding heart PETA person I guess. I'm not gonna go kick cats or run over turtles, I'm just turning off the meat fired furnace that was my diet and only keep the embers going in case the need arises later (bit of a doomsdayer I am).
So, that is my peace. Like it or leave it, makes very little difference to me. I can vanish and never come back if you want or I can hang around. Just know that you'll catch a lot more flies with sugar than you can vinegar.
Still, this is a choice we make. Don't hold your people accountable for a choice you have made for yourself :P.
Correct me if I'm alone in this, but I respect every single person who does something, ANYTHING to better the environment or their health or helps animals in any way at all. Whether it's a total cruelty free lifestyle or someone who just cuts back on their red meat intake, they get an A for effort.
I think the heroin analogy was a little off because of what was sad before, heroin is bad for you. When I tell anyone why I'm doing what I'm doing, I want to help them. I'm not trying to say that I'm better than them or that I know more, just that I want the good things that happened for me to happen to them too. I do want everyone to be healthy and happy, but a lot of people choose to take it as a lecture rather than a helpful "you know what worked great for me, and I think would work great for most people..." kind of conversation.
We all know that we're not living in the majority, and it's hard for me that no one around me will let me talk about what's important to me without rolling their eyes or mentioning the word "phase".
I'm just going to stick to my own rants here. I've gotten used to the fact that I'm usually the only vegetarian in the room wherever I go, but I get frustrated when I go to someone's house for dinner. They know I'm vegetarian (have been for 10 years) yet then consistently forget that when they cook. I don't ask for them to research tofu recipes or anything like that but there are plenty of universal meat eater/vegetarian meals. Like spaghetti with marinara or something simple like that that a vegetarian can eat and a meat eater will not turn their nose up at. One time my cousin made a chicken casserole and thought I could just "pick the chicken out" and eat the rest! Granted, people have gotten much better with this but it's taken 10 years for them to get it. I've gotten to the point where I eat before I go to someone's house for dinner because I don't know if there will be anything without meat in it.
Just recently I went to a lunch reception and the waiters came around and just plopped plates of chicken in front of everyone. It was a sit down lunch at a fairly expensive place. I was surprised that there was no consideration taken for any of the 50+ people there that might have different dietary needs. When I told the waitress that I don't eat chicken and was there anything vegetarian I could have, I just got a wide eyed blank look. I don't understand, it's not like we are in the dawning age of veg*nism.
Heroin is bad. But using it is a choice, maybe not so much in the long term, but early on, there are choices made. The analogy was about the choice, NOT the harmful effects of heroin or the health benefits of not eating meat. I hope this puts the heroin to bed.....
Correct me if I'm alone in this, but I respect every single person who does something, ANYTHING to better the environment or their health or helps animals in any way at all. Whether it's a total cruelty free lifestyle or someone who just cuts back on their red meat intake, they get an A for effort.
Fee, this is the right attitude, as the focus of veganism is compassion. It's more effective to compliment someone on his/her awareness and efforts, no matter how big or small, than act like the vegan police and attack one for not embracing a 100% cruelty-free, vegan lifestyle.
Omnivorous friends and family members will sometimes tell me - with big smile and pride - when they don't eat meat for dinner, or are wearing synthetic leather shoes. Stuff like this makes my day.
Nargalzius - You said on a veg*n website that you eat meat. You'd have to know that would cause debate, so I don't get where your indignation is coming from. Now you say you're going to name your meat, which is a deliberately aggressive statement. I'm not sure if this is your primary goal or ancillary. You're absolutely welcome, but I think you're feeling more defensive than is warranted given the forum in which you made your statements. Pick another thread in which to post and you'll find we don't carry things outside of a given topic.
You know, this is all way out of hand from the initial answer from someone who sees both sides of the story to someone who was asking advice on how not to be all upset with non-vegans. If I'm being asked to take stuff to different threads than I can only point out that I replied to a post from the original poster and was then picked out and subsequently haranqued from there. I did not start any ofthis I was simply giving up advice that was ASKED for. I on the other hand have been the one subjected to the other than solicited type of correspondence. Jeebus Effin Crizz!
If you all want to act like a bunch of sel righteous old red-hat club biddies than go ahead. I hope you all enjoy communing with the absolute same people you have been with the same viewpoint and the same effed up idea of what life is. I'm out! Peace.
And besides how many other people on here have said they eat meat and eggs and milk and cheese. Out of weakness too, they claim. At least I admit that it is not weakness and it is a purposeful act not some "slip" or other easy to blame on something else type of action. Maybe y'all put your friggin' diva cups in the wrong place or something. Dammit.
And besides how many other people on here have said they eat meat and eggs and milk and cheese. Out of weakness too, they claim. At least I admit that it is not weakness and it is a purposeful act not some "slip" or other easy to blame on something else type of action. Maybe y'all put your friggin' diva cups in the wrong place or something. Dammit.
Do NOT mock the Diva Cup! :D
I support ya, Nargalzius. I think it's great that you know what you're about and why. Continue to do what you think is right for you, and don't worry about what everyone else has to say. As far as I see it, everyone who comes to this website has a slightly different take on veg*nism, and that's cool. We may have differnet dietary restrictions and different reasons for those restrictions, but we still have so much in common. As far as I'm concerned, you're welcome on this thread and any other....even the diva club! hehe
Do NOT mock the Diva Cup!
;D
Hey Nargalzius,
I'm not saying who is right or wrong, yes we all have different interpretations on what veg*nism is and I think you have your right to state your opinion on the matter and I dont think you should peace out because thats not what its about. Its about learning and being open minded, and just as you stated your opinion so has everyone else. And you're right it would be pretty lame if everyone agreed because that would mean we are all the same. Just because I don't agree with everything you do doesn't mean that by me stating my thoughts means that I want YOU to change your thoughts. I don't view anyone who eats meat differently because then that would mean that I would look down on my entire family. I think its good to bring these discussions up because only then do you realize where you really stand where your values lie and how far you are willing to stand up for what you believe in. I think its good that we can challenge each other.
Wooo! I had a feeling this thread would get there eventually... kinda shocked it took till page four!
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